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FAQ (4)

Als FAQ-Beitrag zur Praxeologie dient hier eine gekürzte Diskussion von Facebook.

Die Folgen 1-3 befinden sich auf apriorist.de


 

[Poster JD schlägt Theorien zur Begründung des Anarchokapitalismus vor, über die es sich lohne sie zu vergleichen] ...

 

- Naturrecht (Rothbard) - Utilitarismus (Friedman)
- Argumentationsethik (Hoppe) - Kontraktualismus (Narveson)
- Intuitionismus (Huemer)
- Praxeologie (Lennartz)
- UPB (Molyneux)
- Anthony de Jasay


Poster C:

Es ist eine gute Liste von untermauernden Theoremen. Der tatsächlich größte Vorteil des AnKap ist allerdings die rein ökonomische Erklärbarkeit, frei von jeder Moral. Arbeite heraus, dass Nietzsches Nihilismus mit angewandten Regeln der Ökonomie (Vorteil des Eigentums, der Achtung des Lebens durch Vertrag) zu eben den freiheitlichen Konzepten führen, die bekannte Autoren moralisch herleiten.


Poster NF:

Was ist mit Amoralismus respektive Egoismus der Stirnerrichtung (vgl. obigen Kommentar zu Nietzsche)? Historisch scheint es im Deutschland der zweiten Hälfte des 19. Jhdts. einige fast vergessene Vertreter dieser Richtung gegeben zu haben: Negation der Metaphysik des "Staates" und aller Verpflichtungen ihm gegenüber; Dadurch unter Anknüpfung an die zeitgenössischen Freihandelslehren die Konsequenz der Anarchieforderung. (Vgl. Raico, Partei der Freiheit, S.62ff.) Mackay und andere Individualanarchisten etwa folgten dann noch weit darüber hinaus ganz ähnlichen Vorstellungen. Heute ist dieser reine Flügel kaum mehr vertreten, aber hat doch einige Wesenszüge mit Gegenwärtigem gemein: Sowohl Kontraktualismus als auch der primär ökonomische (etwa der Lennartzsche Praxeologische) Ansatz, gehen ja, wenn Ich das recht sehe, eher von handelnden Individuen mit subjektiven Interessen zur Begründung privatrechtlicher Verhältnisse aus, denn von der Frage nach objektiver Ethik.

Das letztere führt zur Frage: Kann man / möchtest du in der Betrachtung ökonomische Argumentationsweise und ethisch-philosophische trennen?

Man nehme Molinaris "Produktion von Sicherheit" von 1848. Er argumentiert auf der einen Seite rein ökonomisch: Der Staat sei angesichts freihändlerischer Monopolgegnerschaft und der Effizienz freier Kooperation hinfällig. Dabei mischt er aber auch naturrechtlich, lockeanisch geprägte Argumente ganz selbstverständlich ein.

Die oben genannten deutschen Anarchisten haben vermutlich einige Jahre später genau diesen Gedanken rezipiert (oder selbst den Schluss gezogen). Sie lassen jedoch das naturrechtliche Argument in stirnerianischer Kritik komplett heraus und bleiben rein beim ökonomischen Argument und dem egoistischen Individuum, das von der Anarchie profitierte.


Poster SB

Ich würde Rothbards Position eher Vernunft- als Naturrecht nennen (obwohl es klar ist, dass er selbst "natural law" sagt), denn er beruft sich auf Thomas von Aquin - könnte sich aber auch (wie Mises) auf Kant berufen; Kant hat unter US-Libertären leider wegen der mir nicht nachvollziehbaren Abwertung durch Ayn Rand einen schlechten Ruf. Man muss Rothbards Position deutlich abgrenzen den Naturrechtslehren, die z.B. einfach das, was traditionell ist, zum "natürlichen" Recht erklären ebenso wie von denen, die das, was in der außermenschlichen Natur vorkommt, zum Naturrecht erheben (beide Strategien der Legitimation finden sich übrigens auch bei Thomas von Aquin).

Ich begründe den Anarchokapitalismus nocheinmal anders, obwohl ich die Vernuftrechtslehre für richtig halte. Jedoch erklärt diese weder die Entstehung und Entwicklung des Staates noch die Lebensfähigkeit einer Gesellschaft ohne Staat. Meine historisch-materialistische anarchokapitalistische Theorie besagt, sehr knapp zusammengefasst, dass 1. es alle gesellschaftlich sinnvollen Funktionen vor und außerhalb des Staates gegeben hat oder gibt; der Staat erfindet sie nicht, sondern okkupiert sich; 2. die Okkupation von gesellschaftlichen Funktionen durch den Staat optimiert diese nicht, sondern dient den Interessen der den Staat instrumentalisierenden Gruppen (herrschende Klasse); 3. die menschliche Gesellschaft hatte vor der Entstehung des Staates eine selbstbewusste und stabile Anarchie (Uranarchie nach Christian Sigrist), deren Struktur allerdings der Weiterentwicklung der menschlichen Gesellschaft nicht angemessen war; das anarchokapitalistische Konzept der konkurrierenden, frei wählbaren Sicherheitsagenturen macht das Prinzip der Uranarchie für die moderne Welt lebensfähig. (Das libertäre Manifest.)


Poster JD

F: Anfänglich wollte ich einen Artikel über Ansätze zur objektiven Begründung von ethischen Normen im Allgemeinen schreiben. Daraus ist dann meine jetzige Idee entstanden. Ausgangspunkt - wenngleich nicht meine eigene Position - ist der Gedanke Rothbards, dass eine wertfreie Begrüdnung des freien Marktes (Mises) nicht ausreicht, sondern es auch einer philosophischen bedarf. Dies schließt für mich teils philosophische/teils ökonomische Begründungen a la Stirner nicht aus. Ich werde Stirner folglich auf die Liste hinzufügen. Aus obigem Grunde werde ich aber den Nihilismus nicht miteinbeziehen [...]. Ich denke, gerade an dem Beispiel wird Rothbards Ausgangspunkt verständlich. Du schreibst "Nietzsches Nihilismus mit angewandten Regeln der Ökonomie (Vorteil von Eigentum [...])" und setzt somit voraus, dass diese Regeln schon gegeben und anerkannt sind. Was ist, wenn jemand diese Regeln nicht anerkennt? Stefan: Ich hatte an Dich gedacht, war mir aber nicht sicher, ob Du den A. anders begründest als Rothbard. Werde nun auch Deine Position auf meine Liste hinzufügen.


Poster NL:

Ich habe mit diesen ganzen Schubladen ein Riesenproblem. Nun wird mir von Niklas Fröhlich ein "primär ökonomischer Ansatz" angedichtet, der sich "von der Frage nach objektiver Ethik" entfernt. Das ist falsch. Gewissermaßen im Gegenteil. Gerade die Ethik (laut Lexikon: Lehre vom richtigen Handeln) kann mit dem Begriff des Handelns ganz sauber logisch hergeleitet werden. Man muss dazu nur die epistemologischen Grundlagen akzeptieren. Einige Leute tun das ja manchmal nicht. So hat z.B. Stefan Blankertz gemeint, dass die Widerspruchsfreiheit zu verlangen, bereits eine Setzung sei.

Während dessen beschäftigt sich der ökonomische Begriff (Ökonomie wird unterschiedlich definiert. Aber wichtig ist den Ökonomen der Umgang mit Knappheiten) vor allem mit Knappheit. Das Problem ist nun aber: Bevor irgendwas knapp ist, müsste zuerst damit entsprechend gehandelt werden. Der Begriff der Handlung geht dem der Knappheit also voraus, bzw. beinhaltet ihn bereits. Viele Ökonomen gehen hin und bauschen den Begriff der Knappheit auf und vergessen das Handeln zwischendurch vollständig wie z.B. Hoppe.

Und dann gibt es wiederum viele, die Stirner ablehnen. Rothbard z.B. ignoriert die "Stirneritis" konsequent. Ich bin mir dagegen sicher, dass Stirner, würde er heute leben, mein Buch unterschreiben würde. Ich sehe keinen inhaltlichen Widerspruch zwischen mir und Stirner. Es ist kompatibel. Genauso bin ich völlig kompatibel zu dem, was Mises ausgearbeitet hat. Ich beziehe mich also auf Sachen, die sowieso schon allgemeingültig sind und die jeder sowieso anerkennen sollte.


Poster NF:

[...]Schon beim Schreiben genau jener Passage fürchtete Ich, dass darauf noch einmal zurückgekommen werden würde. Gerade in deiner Beschreibung sehe Ich mich aber in der ideengeschichtlichen Kategorisierung bestätigt: Du leitest aus der Lehre vom Handeln - das ist Ökonomie bzw. Praxeologie - eine Norm her. Aus dem zielgerichteten Handlungsbegriff der Praxeologie folgt bei dir ein Begriff vom richtigen, sittlichen Handeln.

Der "objektive Ethik"-Punkt ist oben vllt. in doppelter Hinsicht etwas missverständlich: Erstens wollte dich nur als Beispiel für die jene Ökonomisierung der Argumentation genannt wissen. Zweitens meinte Ich ganz in diesem Sinne, dass es etwas anderes sei, klassischerweise vermeintlich "objektiv" ein ethisches Axiom zu setzen, denn wie du von ökonomischen Axiomen auszugehen und daraus eine Ethik zu _folgern_ - eine Trennung, die für Jonathans ideengeschichtlichen Überblick durchaus praktikabel ist. Fehlendes Streben nach Objektivivtät habe Ich dir nicht vorwerfen wollen.

Anders formuliert erkenne Ich als dein einziges grundlegendes ethisches Axiom im Wesentlichen, dass sittlich (i.e. ethisch) die Handlung sei, die praxeologisch widerspruchsfrei ist.


Poster NL:

1. Der Begriff "sittlich" passt nun überhaupt nicht. Ethik und Moral sind zwei verschiedene Begriffe. Leider werfen die Leute das ständig in einen Topf.

2. Der Begriff des Handelns ist erst mal völlig neutral. Den kann man auch erkenntnistheoretisch aufbauen. Mises at al haben die ökonomische Seite rausgekehrt. Die ökonomische Seite interessiert mich nur am Rande. Deine "ideengeschichtliche Kategorisierung" halte ich für eine willkürliche Schublade. Sie verdeckt mehr als sie erklären kann.


Poster NF:

[...] Ich halte indessen die Trennung von "Ethik" und "Moral" für völlig willkürlich und auch historisch verkehrt: "moralis" ist die lateinische Übertragung des griechischen "ethikos", vgl. Cicero, de Fato, 1. Das deutsche Wort, dass "Ethos" bzw. "Mos" entspricht, ist "Sitte".


Poster NL:

Historisch gesehen hat Du natürlich recht. Aber gerade diese historische Sicht ist doch willkürlich und ein Sammelsurium von Aussagen und Behauptungen, die nicht zusammenpassen. Welchen Wert hat das denn? Wenn Ethik Erkenntnis schöpfen soll, dann muss sie die Logik konsequent anwenden. Das ist aber nicht möglich, wenn man Moraltheorien zusammenfuddelt und so tut als sei damit etwas Vernünftiges gesagt.


Poster NF:

Nun versucht aber auch der Moraltheoretiker, ebenso wie der Ethiker, Erkenntnis über das Normative zu schöpfen und bedient sich dabei sehr wohl der Logik. Ob das erfolgreich sei, ist eine andere Thematik. Kurz: Ich sehe zwei drei Worte (aus drei Sprachen) für genau denselben Diskursbereich. Ergo: Ethisch=moralisch=sittlich.

(Natürlich gibt es sowohl die Tendenz, jeden faktischen Gebrauch als "sittlich" zu bezeichnen, als auch, das "Sittliche" zu einer Frage des individuellen, oder meinetwegen kollektiven Sittengeschmacks zu erklären. Das ist aber für die Begrifflichkeit kein Problem; tatsächlich hat sich die Ethik ja maßgeblich gerade gegen diese Vorstellung entwickelt: ta ethika respektive moralia sind Beschäftigung nicht mit der Wiedergabe der positiven Norm, sondern mit ihrer Begründung.)


Poster NL:

"Das ist aber für die Begrifflichkeit kein Problem".

Kommt drauf an, was Du unter Begriff begreifst. Wenn der Begriff als lockere Beschreibung betrachtet wird, dann leistet er ja nicht mehr als viele Witzipedia-Artikel. Soll der Begriff im engsten Sinne von Begriff behandelt werden, dann kommst Du nicht drum rum die Begrifflichkeit im strengsten umfassenden Sinne zu verwenden. Ein Widerspruch macht den Begriff bereits undicht. Ein Theoretiker, der nun schludrig ist, verbreitet zum größten Teil Wortkasperei. Wenn wir jetzt das zusammennehmen, was sich alles Ethik nennt, dann ist das der Turmbau zu Babel. Nicht mal Kant hat eine in sich konsistente Theorie abgeliefert. Nochmal: Welchen Wert hat dann so ein schludriger Ethikbegriff?

"Ob das erfolgreich sei, ist eine andere Thematik."

Das ist aber die einzig wesentliche Thematik.


Poster NL:

Mich erreichen noch Fragen per PN dazu.

"Ich frage mich dennoch, wie der Begriff Ethik (Lehre vom richtigen Handeln) lapidar sauber und logisch hergeleitet werden kann. Ich habe da so meine Vorstellungen, aber könnten Sie mir sagen, woher Sie diesen genau herleiten. Sehr wahrscheinlich aus dem Faktum des Handelns... "

Wie zuvor geschrieben, ist der lexikalische Eintrag der Ethik historisch verdorben. Wir müssen ihn also auf das wesentliche reduzieren, wenn wir überhaupt etwas damit anfangen können. Die technische Möglichkeit den Begriff "Ethik" sauber abzuleiten sehe ich allerdings nicht. Mir reicht der Begriff "Lehre vom richtigen Handeln" und das Ethik zu nennen und praxeologisch aufzubauen. Das nun wiederum selbst sauber herzuleiten, kommt einer Letztbegründung gleich, was nicht wirklich möglich ist. Aber nach all dem was sich zeigt, ist das praktisch alternativlos. Nur die konsequente praxeologische Herangehensweise erlaubt eine umfangreiche in sich konsistente wissenschaftliche Theorie. Das ist offensichtlich nur so möglich. Wer was anderes behauptet, müsste eine bisher unbekannte Alternative aufzeigen können. Das werden wir aber sicherlich nicht erleben.

"Inwiefern ist Widerspruchsfreiheit zu verlangen keine Setzung, welche andere Menschen untergeordnet sein müssen?"

Weil der Satz vom Widerspruch ein zentrales Gebot der Logik ist. Das sollte eigentlich zum schulischen Grundwissen zählen. Es ist wohl erschreckend genug, dass die Erkenntnis an zahlreichen Leuten (vielleicht die Mehrheit) völlig vorbei gegangen ist. Wenn wir jetzt die Logik ablehnen, dann wird alles sinnlos. Dann kann man Krieg gegen das kleine Ein-Mal-Eins führen wie es ja Millionen von Möchtegernberufs-Intellektuellen quasi tun.

"Inwiefern sehen Sie Ethik und Moral als zwei verschiedene Begriffe an? Wodurch unterscheiden sie sich voneinander? "

Wenn wir das so sehen, dass eine Moral eine in sich begrenzte Theorie ist, die in sich konsistent sein sollte, dann ist Ethik eine Gesamttheorie, die ebenfalls in sich konsistent sein muss, damit sie wissenschaftlich ist. Mit Moral kann man nun vieles einfach behaupten, weil eine Konsistenzprüfung in ein Gesamtkonzept nicht verlangt wird. Also man kann eine Moraltheorie für Todesstrafe haben und eine dagegen. Damit sind das natürlich reine Wertsetzungen. Gelänge es eine Moraltheorie in ein wissenschaftlichliches ethisches Gesamtkonzept einzubinden, dann wäre es nicht mehr nötig, von einer Wertung auszugehen. Nur die Praxeologie als Ganzes ist eine Wertung. Diese Abzustreiten ergibt aber keinen Sinn.

"Ich verstehe noch nicht ganz, worin sie die Lehre von Mises weitergeführt haben, also konkret jetzt?"

Mises hat ja da aufgehört zu forschen, wo es um die Begriffe der freien Mittelwahl des Handelns geht. Er hat sich da sogar ähnlich wie Kant eine "ultimative" Staatsbegründung zurecht gelegt.
Ich sage jetzt, dass die Theorie des Handelns fast beliebig erweitert werden kann, wenn wir uns nur mit den Begriffen befassen wie man beabsichtigt zu handeln. Einer dieser Begriffe ist ja das friedliche kooperative Handeln aus dem die kooperative Ordnung logisch klar ersichtlich wird. Man kann aber auch andere Begriffe z.B. aus einem Handwerk dazu nehmen, wo wir eben wissen, dass es nur so geht und die Möglichkeit haben, es so zu machen. So lässt sich eben das Axiom des Handelns erweitern, also über die Tür der freien Mittelwahl des Handelns.

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  161. Leaking Pipe In A Wall: Oct 24, 2016 at 04:09 AM -

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  163. Geraldo: Oct 24, 2016 at 11:05 AM -

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  165. Brodie: Oct 25, 2016 at 05:59 PM -

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  166. Arleen: Oct 25, 2016 at 09:07 PM -

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  168. Gino: Oct 25, 2016 at 11:10 PM -

    Suboxone and even Methadone are both synthetic opioids as
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  169. What Can I Use To Seal A Leaking Pipe: Oct 25, 2016 at 11:44 PM -

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  170. indianapolisplumbercompanies.bitballoon.com: Oct 26, 2016 at 12:26 AM -

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  171. Installing Plumbing On Exterior Wall: Oct 26, 2016 at 03:38 AM -

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  172. Fix Leaky Copper Water Pipe: Oct 26, 2016 at 04:00 AM -

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  173. Fix Leaky Pipe Under Toilet: Oct 26, 2016 at 05:41 AM -

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  174. Yvonne: Oct 26, 2016 at 08:38 AM -

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  176. indianapolisplumbercompanies.bitballoon.com: Oct 26, 2016 at 07:00 PM -

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  178. Alvin: Oct 27, 2016 at 07:13 AM -

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  184. Rochelle: Oct 30, 2016 at 06:16 PM -

    Boyle mentions the absence of car parking in the heart of the residential rowhouse community as
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  185. Wilhelmina: Oct 30, 2016 at 08:53 PM -

    Methadone facilities soon started appearing throughout the
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  186. Leaking Toilet: Oct 30, 2016 at 11:51 PM -

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  188. Leaking Sewer Pipe Under House: Oct 31, 2016 at 10:37 AM -

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  189. indianapolisplumbercompanies.bitballoon.com: Oct 31, 2016 at 04:14 PM -

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  190. Liquid Plumr: Oct 31, 2016 at 05:15 PM -

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  191. indianapolisplumbercompanies.bitballoon.com: Oct 31, 2016 at 08:31 PM -

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  192. indianapolisplumbercompanies.bitballoon.com: Oct 31, 2016 at 09:14 PM -

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  193. indianapolisplumbercompanies.bitballoon.com: Nov 01, 2016 at 12:12 AM -

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  194. Leaky Pipe Irrigation: Nov 01, 2016 at 06:48 AM -

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  195. indianapolisplumbercompanies.bitballoon.com: Nov 01, 2016 at 06:48 AM -

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  196. Agueda: Nov 01, 2016 at 09:51 AM -

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